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Bonnie Hammer is the Vice Chairman of NBC Common, however her function within the media trade wasn’t at all times that glamorous. Actually, she’s held nearly each title there may be within the tv trade—from manufacturing assistant to producer to president. And should you don’t know her identify, you undoubtedly know her work. All through the 2000s, she led main networks like USA, Syfy, Bravo, and Leisure Tonight.
Hammer is among the most influential individuals in media. She joined host Alison Beard on HBR IdeaCast in 2024 to mirror on her decades-long profession, and what it takes to navigate and thrive in one of the vital disrupted industries—media.
ALISON BEARD: So firstly of your profession, have been you in search of a job that will include a whole lot of change and dynamism, or was it simply one thing you had to determine to outlive within the trade?
BONNIE HAMMER: Let’s simply put it this fashion, firstly of my profession, I used to be in search of something to do this gave me a paycheck. I had a ardour that I began with, which was images, and I figured that in some way I’d make a dwelling that means. So my first jobs out of faculty have been working in a darkish room at a business images studio, and it led me to a photograph modifying job, that was type of boring too. I actually labored at discovering one thing with my ardour till I tripped right into a place that led me to a job, which led me to a profession.
So I believe the primary one was giving up a dream that wasn’t main me wherever, and type of what then turned my philosophy in life, following the alternatives, and my first alternative wasn’t precisely shining. I used to be the bottom grade manufacturing assistant on a child’s math TV present, on public broadcasting in Boston, actually following a canine across the set and cleansing up his poop. I knew it was a chance. I used to be in a tv studio and who knew what it may result in, and I cleaned up the poop with a smile and realized from then on it was about angle and following alternatives.
ALISON BEARD: So how did you establish these alternatives that you simply knew have been going to steer you within the path that the trade was additionally going?
BONNIE HAMMER: I didn’t have a look at it in the direction of leaning me to the alternatives that will assist me develop, and I believe that is among the obstacles in the way in which with I believe a whole lot of younger individuals attempting to navigate the office. What I did was comply with alternatives the place I might study, study virtually something, new abilities, the way to do one thing I haven’t accomplished earlier than, assembly new those who I hadn’t met earlier than, with the hope that a kind of alternatives would lead me to the following step, versus seeing it as a ladder the place you climb rung by rung by rung to stand up to the highest.
I believe should you try this, particularly lately when industries are altering so rapidly, that the chance that, that job, that place and even that trade would nonetheless be there in 10 or 20 years, shouldn’t be life like. So for me, it was taking up various things that a minimum of sounded fascinating or had a brand new skillset that I may study, so I may broaden myself. And a part of it was typically it was the one factor out there. So do I not take it and do nothing and complain, or do I take it and simply see the place it leads me?
ALISON BEARD: And when you might see modifications looming, whether or not it was the rise of cable or the digitization of the trade, I believe you went by way of seven mergers to grow to be what’s now NBCUniversal. What did you do to determine these studying alternatives but in addition locations the place you’ll be secure? How did you attempt to keep forward of the change?
BONNIE HAMMER: Nicely, I believe at the start, what individuals must do shouldn’t be concern change. Change goes to come back. Whether or not you need it or not, whether or not you attempt to management it or not, your boat goes to be rocked, whether or not you do it or the waves do it, you’re going to get moist.
In our world, change is inevitable. So fairly than waste time fearing it and complaining about it and being a naysayer, my intestine has at all times been embrace change. As a result of you haven’t any management doing the rest. Sure, there’s at all times a second of “I can’t consider that is occurring once more.” And as you mentioned, I’ve gone by way of seven company modifications, eight completely different bosses, and in some way nonetheless navigated my means by way of.
So the very first thing was embrace it, that means, “It’s right here, what I’ve to do is work out a means that I can match into this new world.” Which suggests determining what their tradition is, doing all of your homework, speaking to individuals, are they extra inventive than financial-based? Are they extra within the backside line than a terrific hit? Do they provide good suggestions and criticism or are they quiet and simply watch you? So perceive what the tradition is and attempt to settle for that.
Then mainly strive to determine the place the door’s going to be open, that means, what are your talent units? What have you ever accomplished earlier than? What do they want, and how are you going to match into their world? After which attempt to discuss to individuals, get recommendation on the place and how one can match into this new tradition. The minute you grow to be unfavourable, the naysayer, they’re not going to need you round. The minute you appear optimistic, optimistic, “I wish to study. That is what I’ve accomplished earlier than. I’d love to suit into your world. Present me how.” It empowers the brand new powers that be to take you beneath their wing and wish to enable you develop you, and have you ever be a part of their new regime. That was my means. It was discovering a door fairly than partitions and obstacles.
ALISON BEARD: Yeah, and I believe what’s so spectacular is that you simply’ve accomplished that, not simply if you have been a lowly manufacturing assistant, however you’ve accomplished that if you have been a very senior govt, attempting to determine what a brand new regime would really feel like and work like.
BONNIE HAMMER: Sure, it occurs at each stage, and in some methods it’s simpler if you’re youthful as a result of you’ll be able to slot in a whole lot of new areas, however upon getting a method of administration and you might be in a way more senior place, embracing it may be harder since you’ve developed your individual model. And can that model match the brand new regime? 9 out of 10 occasions, it may possibly, and it’ll. And I type of joke that the rationale I will be in a room is as a result of I’ve been in so many rooms that I’ve found out a means the place the door is, the place a window is, the place a crack is, to determine a means to slot in and be a part of that new tradition.
It doesn’t imply I’m not going to have a voice or I’m going to surrender my voice, or not be genuine to me or my model of administration. It’s simply being open to determine how my model can combine with the brand new model, the brand new tone. I’ve nonetheless at all times remained Bonnie. I’ve nonetheless led my group, my individuals in the identical means, however I had to determine the way to translate their values, their backside line, their definition of success to all of my individuals so we may nonetheless have enjoyable and do what we do, however have it translate in a means that they perceive and get it.
ALISON BEARD: Was there ever a time, in the course of the trade ups and downs and the mergers, if you have been actually apprehensive in regards to the future? And if that’s the case, how did you keep centered?
BONNIE HAMMER: You at all times fear in regards to the future. Individuals maintain saying what’s occurring now within the enterprise is the most important change that’s ever occurred. AI goes to come back in, corporations are restructuring, getting smaller and smaller. The reality is that’s occurred from the get go. What occurred with cable over the many years, that I used to be fortunate sufficient to be in it, we mainly out did broadcast by way of income as a result of we had two sources of income coming in, so we have been making much more cash than broadcast was making.
Then everyone mentioned, Peacock or streamers at massive, have been going to fully blow away linear TV. Guess what? We’re all going to nonetheless survive it, however otherwise. And since I’ve been round so lengthy, every decade, one thing else was absolutely going to kill one thing else. There’ll at all times be one thing new, at all times be one thing threatening it. See what it’s, study it, perceive it, after which strive to determine how the 2 can co survive whilst you’re navigating your solution to see the place it actually finally ends up.
ALISON BEARD: Yeah. So I do wish to speak about NBC’s entrance to streaming with Peacock. It’s at all times troublesome with new expertise. You don’t wish to enter if it’s not going to pan out. You don’t wish to be too early, however you then additionally don’t wish to be too late. NBCUniversal did begin a bit behind. So how did you method that problem as the one who was tasked with creating Peacock?
BONNIE HAMMER: Nicely, in hindsight, Steve Burke, Brian Roberts have been proper to attend. Nevertheless, for the 5 years main as much as once we began, I and several other different senior individuals, throughout the NBC household, have been pushing them to leap into streaming. “We’re late, we’re late, we’ve got to do it. Look what’s occurring on the planet.” And so they type of listened, however not likely, till someday Steve mentioned, “Okay, we’re going to do that, and I need you to steer the fees to a minimum of launch it.” And my response to him, aside from me being one among a number of who have been pushing it was, “Why me?” I’m so not a technological buff. I’m a content material creator and sure, I’m a pacesetter, however I used to be very sincere saying, “This isn’t my world.” However I believe the honesty was what led him to place me within the place.
As a result of he knew I knew the way to lead, he knew I knew content material, and he additionally knew that I didn’t must be the neatest one within the room, that I’ll encompass myself with individuals who knew much more than I did, and allow them to educate me and assist me develop a group that may launch it.
ALISON BEARD: Speak me by way of your course of for making essential selections, whether or not it goes again to inexperienced lighting a present or hiring a key producer or making your individual profession transfer, like saying, “Certain, I’ll tackle launching the streaming channel.” How do you weigh the professionals and cons or take into account info versus intuition?
BONNIE HAMMER: This has grown over time, and the best means for me to explain it’s the ABCs all the way in which to G, of intestine. I’ll begin with A. Analyze. What are you attempting to do, the place are you attempting to get to, whether or not it’s a present or a profession determination or the rest. And actually take the time to determine what it’s you need and why. B is brainstorming, which is my favourite factor as a result of it’s collaborative. Get a bunch of individuals collectively and speak about it. What we at all times did with each single present earlier than we greenlit it, I had each one among my senior individuals, even individuals who had nothing to do with inventive, sit in a room, learn the script earlier than they got here in, and we’d brainstorm the nice, the unhealthy, what we appreciated, what we didn’t like, et cetera, to simply see the place individuals are popping out.
Then C, evaluate. What are you attempting to do versus what has occurred earlier than, both in your life or different exhibits that have been on different networks or different streamers earlier than? Did it work? Why did it work? If it didn’t work, why did it fail? D, which I like as properly, discover a satan’s advocate. It’s what most individuals don’t do, as a result of most individuals don’t wish to hear unfavourable stuff. Discover anyone who’s going to choose aside no matter you might be selecting to do, simply to see the place the holes are. It’s not to allow them to discuss you out of it, it’s so a minimum of they’re going to present you a facet of no matter you’re deciding which may not be in your language at that time or may not be in your thoughts. E, it’s simply the trouble that you simply put into what it’s and discovering the consultants which might be in that world.
So what the crimson lights, inexperienced lights are in that call. Somebody who already has a job, somebody who’s already produced a present, anyone who’s an knowledgeable in directing visible results that you simply haven’t accomplished.
F, easy, the information. You really must know the information of what you’re doing, in comparison with what has come earlier than. After which G is intestine. Belief your intestine, particularly if you’ve been in that world earlier than, accomplished what you’ve accomplished earlier than. So for me it’s utilizing the 2 brains, the mind in your head and the mind in your abdomen. And when collectively, you will not be assured success, however you’re undoubtedly going to restrict failure.
ALISON BEARD: So it appears like additionally that intestine intuition, even should you’re working in a very new surroundings, there are elements of your expertise in numerous realms that may inform it in a very optimistic means.
BONNIE HAMMER: Completely. I’ve one – as soon as we have been attempting to do a present referred to as Political Animals, which everyone on the group was completely optimistic was going to be enormous success. It had Sigourney Weaver and Ellen Burstyn. We had a terrific producer, we had a terrific director. We did not one of the ABCs of intestine checking aside from examine our intestine. Once we bought the scores, we have been completely shocked as a result of it did worse than some other present we had ever, ever accomplished earlier than.
And the very first thing I needed to do, I owned the failure. Wrote a be aware to my boss, earlier than the scores have been public, mentioned, “We’re devastated. We don’t know how or why this occurred. We’re going to determine what went flawed, however I simply wish to let earlier than the scores are available formally, we blew it, simply completely blew it.”
The opposite occasion was a present the place all of us knew, my complete group, the script didn’t match USA Community. It was a little bit too darkish, actor wasn’t actually identified, however he was fascinating and quirky. Nothing about it match what we needed to do in USA, however the director, author, we thought, was distinctive. The character concerned was fabulous.
And we made the choice consciously that nothing about this could match on USA, however it’s too good for some other community to get it. And we determined we’re keen to take a calculated danger and do that. And what occurred was, that is Mr. Robotic, which did extremely properly, was an enormous success for USA. The acutely aware calculated danger labored out. And we have been keen to fail if we needed to as a result of we knew all of the ABCs, throughout intestine, of creating that call and we have been keen to fail. There have been no surprises there.
ALISON BEARD: And so the distinction with Political Animals is that you simply didn’t do A by way of F, you simply did G.
BONNIE HAMMER: Appropriate.
ALISON BEARD: You might be this one that’s risen to the very high of your trade, and that meant that you simply went from managing small groups to very large ones, like greater than 2000 individuals. So how did you determine that transition? You appear to be you rely very a lot on interpersonal connection, collaboration, group tradition. How do you keep all of that as your span of energy will increase, and make all of these individuals, who you’re managing, really feel as snug as you might be in managing change in a very troublesome dynamic trade?
BONNIE HAMMER: Nicely, first it’s important to keep the values you had if you have been main a smaller group, that means collaboration, caring, empathy, making a excessive bar for fulfillment, however having actually good communication in that course of. So it’s figuring out what your model or your tradition is for managing your group, then instructing that to all of your direct studies to allow them to push it down. There must be consistency and an understanding. A few of the methods I helped try this – as soon as I bought into bigger groups and a number of channels that I used to be managing, I might do what I referred to as Breakfast with Bonnie. And people breakfasts could be as soon as a month with most likely about 20 in every breakfast, from govt assistants to administrators. And we might sit in a room, I might do a really enjoyable, straightforward open, I might speak about in the mean time what was occurring, what was succeeding, what was not succeeding inside our personal world.
After which I might open it as much as questions, and I might actually say to individuals, “This room is Vegas. No matter occurs right here stays right here. Nothing goes to go as much as your direct boss or as much as anyone greater in my room. I want to grasp what’s working and what’s not working in our division. And I do know you guys are fact tellers, so inform me what’s occurring, what’s working, what’s not. What messages are you getting? Do you’re feeling snug? Do you’re feeling such as you’re rising?” I needed to listen to the reality. And ultimately anyone would increase their hand and open up and inform me the reality of an issue that existed or an angle, or one thing that wasn’t occurring that ought to occur. And I might study what’s occurring on the extra junior ranges so I may repair it, or a minimum of I’d pay attention to it.
As a result of it wasn’t effervescent as much as my stage, I didn’t learn about it. And I bought to know an entire lot of individuals on the decrease ranges. And since I went by way of each single stage attending to the place I’m, I appreciated the whole lot that different individuals do on the decrease ranges that most individuals don’t get are so essential to the product. So I did that for years and it labored extremely properly. So it’s important to articulate your values, individuals have to grasp your tradition, and it’s important to push these values down, all the way in which to the entry-level individuals as properly. While you try this, individuals keep inside that tradition, and wish to keep and develop inside your world for a very long time.
ALISON BEARD: So it sounds such as you’re keen to rent individuals who have completely different management kinds than you. What particularly do you search for to be sure that they’re going to be the individuals who method challenges the way in which you do?
BONNIE HAMMER: Nicely, I believe usually individuals rent individuals due to skillset, or within the early levels, due to levels or the varsity they went to. Sure, skillset is essential, fundamental smarts, intelligence, however for me it’s a top quality of an individual. After they are available, are they keen to pay attention or are they simply going to babble about themselves? Do they provide different individuals credit score within the dialog you might have with them or do they take credit score for themselves? I search for tone. I search for anyone who has some grace. I search for somebody who I believe will be trusted as a group member who’s keen to collaborate. So listening fairly than speaking, asking good questions that exhibits they wish to study, all for me go means above any type of diploma or skillset expertise.
ALISON BEARD: Yeah. And when you might have group members that you simply don’t see embracing change in the way in which you need them to, how do you give them crucial suggestions? What’s the important thing to doing that properly?
BONNIE HAMMER: Nicely, I believe at the start, it’s important to give that suggestions. And I believe oftentimes, within the office, individuals watch, they decide, however don’t essentially have actual conversations with those who work with and for them. And so they might anticipate the top of yr assessment, however I don’t suppose that’s sufficient. It’s a must to have the robust conversations with individuals who you suppose have the chance to develop. And even these you may not suppose can develop, however you must give them one other attempt to see, to allow them to know what’s occurring or not occurring. Ask them how are they doing? How do you suppose you’re doing right here and why? After which inform them, “Nicely me let you know how I see it, and I simply wish to enable you study and enable you develop.” I don’t consider individuals can develop with no little robust love and being informed the reality, nevertheless it ought to are available a useful, helpful, positively tonal means.
ALISON BEARD: I really feel like one actual wrestle for managers now’s working with people who find themselves very, excellent at what they at present do, however have to study one thing new. For instance, it’s me, I’m a superb editor, I’m a terrific podcast host, hopefully, and I have to study GenAI. I have to study these new applied sciences, nevertheless it’s straightforward for me to relaxation on my laurels. So how do you push these people who find themselves nice performers, to do extra and problem themselves?
BONNIE HAMMER: Nicely, at the start, I at all times search for these individuals who will increase their fingers and say, “I wish to study. I don’t know something about AI but, and what’s one of the best ways to do it?” It begins with a dialog that claims, “You’re doing amazingly properly. Every part I ask you to do, inside your skillset, your activity, your title, is nice, however the world is altering. And I believe so that you can develop, and I believe so that you can have a runway inside this world, this firm, this skillset, you’ve bought to begin reaching a little bit out of your consolation zone. And right here’s a number of methods wherein you might do it.
It’s mainly approaching that particular person in a means that, once more, doesn’t sound like, “Oh my God, I’m going to lose my job if I don’t study this skillset,” however in a means that’s providing them the chance. And in the event that they bounce at it, fabulous. In the event that they don’t, you’ll be able to nonetheless give them a little bit nudge, but when they actually don’t take you up on it, then as a pacesetter, as a boss, it’s important to understand what their limitation is.
ALISON BEARD: I simply wish to say for the file, I attended a big language mannequin lunch and study this week, and I additionally went to a convention the place I realized about all of those AI instruments. So I’m attempting. What recommendation do you give younger individuals who need careers in media or some other actually fast-changing trade at this time?
BONNIE HAMMER: My recommendation is to grasp that it’s important to work at your price to get what you need. That in an effort to stand out, it’s important to be seen, which suggests coming in early, elevating your fingers for alternatives, staying late, not seeing something beneath you, significantly within the first few years throughout these studying years –
ALISON BEARD: Yeah. A reminder that Bonnie Hammer picked up canine poo in her first job.
BONNIE HAMMER: Yeah. Sure. Did I complain to my family and friends? In fact I did, however once I confirmed up on the set, I did it with a smile, and something they requested me, to expire for 3 lattes, I did it figuring out that if I used to be optimistic, if I used to be optimistic, they might wish to have me round. And in case you are optimistic, individuals are going to need you proceed to have you ever round. Then it’s important to carry out. Should you’re requested to do one thing, do it. Do your homework, do it properly. Should you’re going to overlook a deadline, don’t BS about it. Mainly say, “I’m not going to have it in on time. That is the rationale. I’ll undoubtedly have it for you by,” give a date.
Individuals must belief you, after which it’s important to grasp the talent set, no matter it’s. Then increase your hand to study as a lot as you’ll be able to for alternatives exterior of your talent set, even should you’re not going to get additional pay for it, as a result of that too will present individuals you might have the vitality, the eagerness, the need to study extra. Just be sure you don’t go right into a state of affairs pretending that what you are able to do should you can’t do it. Ask questions. Be taught. Present individuals what and inform them what you don’t. It’s very onerous to win again belief, nevertheless it’s very straightforward to empower others to wish to enable you and educate you. I believe it’s essential to stay humble, have humility, even together with confidence. You don’t want entitlement and vanity. That makes an enormous distinction within the center a part of your profession by way of the way you navigate it.
And when you get a little bit bit extra senior, then it truly is the ABCs of intestine by way of the way you develop, and studying how… Successful is great, however you additionally must learn to lose, study from shedding, as a way to transfer ahead and perceive all that’s, is a studying expertise. It was an impediment, nevertheless it’s not a cease signal. It’s not a lifeless finish. Use it to problem your self to discover a solution to win another way. After which in the end, it’s simply embracing change. As a result of it’s going to come back for you it doesn’t matter what you do. So learn to run in the direction of it and embrace it.
ALISON BEARD: Nicely, Bonnie, that’s such nice recommendation. So many pearls of knowledge on this dialog and within the e book. I actually recognize you approaching the present.
BONNIE HAMMER: Alison. Thanks for having me. I at all times take pleasure in speaking with you.
HANNAH BATES: That was NBC Common Vice Chairman Bonnie Hammer, in dialog with Alison Beard on HBR IdeaCast. Hammer can also be the creator of the e book 15 Lies Girls are Instructed About Work: …and the Reality We Have to Succeed.
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This episode was produced by Mary Dooe and Me, Hannah Bates. Curt Nickisch is our editor. Music by Coma Media. Particular because of Maureen Hoch, Rob Eckhardt, Erica Truxler, Ramsey Khabbaz, Nicole Smith, Anne Bartholomew, and also you – our listener. See you subsequent week.