Sustaining a Legacy of Giving in Turkey

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By Calvin S. Nelson

BRIAN KENNY: On February 6, 2023 a 7.8 Magnitude earthquake shattered the pre-dawn calm in southeastern Turkey and northwestern Syria. Tremors might be felt as distant as Israel and Cyprus. A number of hours later because the solar appeared on the horizon, one other highly effective quake struck 60 miles to the north. Within the days that adopted the dying toll would exceed 45,000 making these the deadliest earthquakes in 1500 years. However after the tremors stopped and the mud settled, the battle for survival had solely simply begun for the 14 million individuals instantly affected. It’s in moments like these that management and values are put to the take a look at, and it’s additionally in moments like these that legacies are cemented. At this time on Chilly Name, we welcome senior lecturer Christina Wing and protagonist Murat Özyeğin to debate the case, “Özyeğin Social Investments: A Legacy of Giving.” I’m your host Brian Kenny and also you’re listening to Chilly Name on the HBR podcast community. Christina Wing’s analysis focuses totally on matters surrounding households and enterprise, together with household dynamics, working corporations, household places of work, and legacy alternatives. Christina, welcome again to Chilly Name.

CHRISTINA WING: Thanks for having me. It’s nice to be right here.

BRIAN KENNY: Actually nice to have you ever again and it’s going to be nice speaking about this case. We’re actually joyful to have our protagonist with us. Murat Özyeğin is chairman of the board at Fiba Group and he is without doubt one of the protagonists within the case at present. We’re going to debate his complete household, however I also needs to point out that you’re a Harvard MBA, is that appropriate?

MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: I’m certainly. I’m a 2003 graduate of Harvard Enterprise College.

BRIAN KENNY: Nice. Nice to have you ever with us.

MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: I’m so joyful to be becoming a member of you at present. Thanks a lot for the invitation.

BRIAN KENNY: Great. And we’re bringing you in from Turkey, so it’s nice so that you can be out there to do that with us. We actually admire it.

MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: Sure, I’m right here. I’m right here in a late winter day from Istanbul.

BRIAN KENNY: I feel many individuals will in all probability bear in mind the horrible earthquake that occurred in Turkey simply final yr. I assumed it was longer in the past till I learn the case and it stroke a chord in my memory. So many individuals would possibly bear in mind simply how devastating this was. However I feel what we’re going to speak about at present is simply one of many many issues that give individuals hope, that we now have the capability as individuals to have the ability to reply to those sorts of issues. So, Christina, I’m going to ask you to begin for us by telling us what the central challenge is within the case, and what your chilly name is while you begin the dialogue within the classroom.

CHRISTINA WING: So, my chilly name is: what does the phrase “legacy” imply to you? And I wrote this case as a result of this household has love of household, love of enterprise, however particularly love of nation. And after the earthquake and talking with Murat and his household, the way in which they mobilized so rapidly to supply assist, on the spot assist, along with all of the lengthy planning assist that they do for his or her nation, was simply superb to me.

BRIAN KENNY: Yeah, we’ve had the pleasure, I’ve had the pleasure of getting you on the present earlier than and we’ve had different protagonists, members of the family from households that you simply’ve labored with. I’m questioning why you determined to write down this case. Why was it essential to you as a option to showcase the concepts and the issues that you simply analysis?

CHRISTINA WING: I feel we usually consider individuals giving as soon as they turn into very rich and this household has been giving earlier than that they had any wealth. And I feel that spirit of giving all alongside the way in which is one thing we are able to all study from.

BRIAN KENNY: So, Murat, let me flip to you. That’s an awesome segue to show to you. I’d love so that you can simply inform us about your loved ones and I’d love to listen to about what it was like rising up along with your mother and pa, and actually within the context of the values that the household has to provide again.

MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: We normally by no means actually selected to talk about our social investments prior to now. And when Christina approached us and stated, “You’ve got a really attention-grabbing story of giving and social investments in your loved ones, in your legacy, in your group, let’s write about this.” It actually was a considering course of for us too.  Due to this fact, that’s how we truly determined to maneuver forward with the case as effectively. And turned it out to be an awesome proud for us to be part of this case. And we really feel so lucky that Christina truly has determined to write down it. And the case turned out very, superb reflection of who we’re. My dad and my mother, they’re an awesome couple. They love one another very a lot. To start with, I need to say that we grew up in a home of affection. That was the principle theme in our home, and respect. My dad and my mother have unbelievable respect for one another. They’ve an unbelievable love for one another. My dad works lots. He truly grew up in a household of affection himself. Similar for my mother. They each had been in very humble households. Each of their fathers are docs. Going again to my dad’s story, perhaps even earlier than they met, he truly got here to Istanbul to Robert School when he was 10 years previous for secondary college. And he stayed there till 18, alone, as a result of his mother and his dad are from Izmir, one other metropolis in Istanbul. He would solely see them as soon as a month.

And he then went to Oregon State College for undergrad. And in that faculty that he went to, which by the way in which I feel had a inhabitants of some 90,000 college students there, as a Turk, he grew to become the scholar physique president of that college. And at Oregon he hosted Bobby Kennedy. He was the scholar physique president and was very lively. Even he dealt with his meals as follows. He joined the meals tasting membership. So, he would go and style meals and provides candid suggestions on whether or not the meals was good or unhealthy, if this have to be as soon as per week, twice per week. After which that is how he fed himself. He actually went to the US with $210 from his household as a Turkish particular person. He ended up graduating from Oregon State, and he instantly utilized to HBS, got here to HBS. He’s additionally a graduate of 1969. When he got here, he instantly bid for the Gallows Grill on campus at HBS. It was run by seven individuals. He fired six individuals and he ended up operating it alone. He not solely washed the dishes, he made the eggs and altered the entire system, He ended up not solely paying again his complete Harvard loans, enterprise college loans, but additionally ending up with $110,000 value of GE and Pan Am shares. Then he got here again to Turkey. He was knowledgeable for some 13 years operating two giant banks in Turkey. And along with his success there, with the popularity, along with his success, and with promoting his two properties that he had accrued till then, he based his personal financial institution. And that’s the financial institution that he based with $2 million of his personal capital and raised cash from different enterprise individuals in Turkey as effectively. He bought that financial institution for 5 and a half billion {dollars} in 2006.


MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: So, coming again to household, we grew up on this home the place mother is giving Mother may be very delicate. By no means ever makes any type of unfavorable feedback, at all times constructive, helps everybody. And pa is at all times at work. I used to make my homeworks in his financial institution on Saturdays as a result of he works on Saturdays. He by no means got here house earlier than 9 P.M. We normally ate very late. But it surely was at all times a house of giving. It was at all times a house of affection. My dad at all times took us to trip. He by no means fell in need of fascinated by our training, what we should always do subsequent. He has been at all times a pacesetter of our home, however my mother was turning across the complete system. My mother began this basis whereas he was a basic supervisor. He was in wage. When Christina says they at all times gave, even when they didn’t have cash, it was appropriate.

BRIAN KENNY: Properly, let me pause you there for a minute as a result of I wish to return to Christina. Really, Murat has introduced up one thing that I feel listeners must learn about, which is the household enterprise. Are you able to describe the enterprise for us?

CHRISTINA WING: Properly, I imply the enterprise has advanced. So, the enterprise began with the financial institution and now the enterprise is a maintain co that owns many various kinds of companies. And Murat is the chairman above these totally different entities which have totally different CEOs. However let’s be clear, all of those companies are owned by this household. Nonetheless, they’re so conscientious about the way in which that they offer to charity that they don’t give in a manner that takes cash out of the pockets of the staff. And what I imply by that’s that they normalize the EBITDA in order that the popularity for the way effectively the staff receives a commission doesn’t keep in mind the large giving that in addition they do with among the money from the companies. So, it’s not solely are they beneficiant, they’re additionally very beneficiant and inflexible in how they consider their enterprise for his or her workers. As a result of in lots of household companies, individuals, as a result of they’re one hundred percent owned, can do numerous issues with it. Very not often do households understand that the staff, though they could be proud that the household provides cash away, they nonetheless, they’re working at a for-profit they usually need their type of analysis and their bonuses to be on the true return on the enterprise, not solely the social return that the household will get. So, it’s one other superb story from that perspective.

BRIAN KENNY: In your opinion or in your commentary, is the enterprise set as much as assist the inspiration? I imply, do they go hand-in-hand?

CHRISTINA WING: So, the companies are set as much as be companies. The household makes use of the majority of the household’s proceeds for philanthropic giving.

BRIAN KENNY: Bought it.

CHRISTINA WING: However these are for-profit entities fully. And I at all times say that households and enterprise have a disproportionate capacity to provide to society. You may give to society via jobs which might be fantastic. You may give to society via the merchandise that you simply make that could be actually good. And you can too give-give, which is {dollars} and time. And this household does all of them with a excessive pleasure for Turkey. I imply, while you meet this household, they’re Turkey. They could as effectively be sporting the flag. They love their nation.

BRIAN KENNY: Murat, let me come again to you for a second. Are you able to inform us in regards to the basis? What does it form of deal with and what’s the household hoping to attain via the inspiration?

MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: Properly, the inspiration is definitely primarily targeted on training. So, one a part of the inspiration is AÇEV, which is in English, “mom and baby instructional basis.” That’s the one my mom based in 1994, precisely seven years after my dad discovered all of the enterprise himself. And that’s on preschool training for youngsters. So, sadly in Turkey preschool training is a luxurious. So, individuals begin college at six or seven in Turkey. Nonetheless, as everyone knows, baby’s mind improvement begins manner earlier than that and it’s capable of obtain a lot extra data earlier than seven. Due to this fact, the motto of my mom’s basis is, seven is just too late. And due to this fact, she has a program that’s performed throughout Turkey in all of the underprivileged areas as a result of the posh areas of Istanbul, Ankara, large cities, all of them have kindergartens, and also you pay and also you go. However preschool training in Turkey will not be offered by authorities. Due to this fact, via AÇEV, a whole bunch of hundreds of youngsters begin training on the age of 4 reasonably than seven and will get prepared for major college. Additionally, the mom half comes from elevating youngsters. And the second a part of our basis is the Özyeğin Basis, Hüsnü Özyeğin Basis, after my dad. 35 major, secondary and excessive faculties, and 60 women’ dormitories. The excessive faculties, they’re all in underprivileged elements of Turkey. We don’t run them. We do them and provides it to the federal government, however we handle them. We make certain its library is crammed with books. We make certain their college students will get teaching to go to varsity and so forth. Then there’s 60 women’ dormitories whereby the women’ dormitories, in the event you don’t construct dormitories subsequent to colleges within the Anatolia a part of Turkey in Southern and Japanese Turkey, individuals don’t ship their faculties strolling on foot 5 kilometers a day. They get scared. So, we put the women dormitories subsequent to colleges.

CHRISTINA WING: I’ve to interrupt you for one second right here, Murat, as a result of that’s such an exceptional factor to do. I feel usually once we say individuals work, that they care about training, we consider giving scholarships or one a part of it. However I feel the superb factor about Murat’s dad and mom is, they had been actually, actually targeted on what are the opposite bottlenecks which might be stopping girls from transferring ahead on this nation? And we now have to appreciate, as a result of our listeners don’t understand how rural the areas exterior of Istanbul can actually be. And if you wish to create a center class in a rustic, it’s important to have upward mobility. And these dorms are a secure place for ladies to study. Studying with out security and meals, you don’t actually study. It’s similar to an train of sitting someplace. However while you’re secure and you’ve got good meals, you do. So, constructing these dorms is one thing I hope different households world wide, the place there’s not transportation for the kids, that folks begin to do this along with the issues that we at all times consider doing.

BRIAN KENNY: Proper. And what I’m additionally listening to is that this instructional focus begins in preschool and extends to secondary college. And we’re going to speak in regards to the college since you’ve lined the complete spectrum of the tutorial journey all the way in which as much as college.

MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: Completely. And one factor about what Christina stated is so essential, I’ve to let you understand in regards to the statistics there. The varsity, the secondary and the excessive faculties subsequent to which we constructed these women dormitories, the share of ladies who find yourself in faculty after we constructed the dormitories went up from 30% to 60%.

BRIAN KENNY: Wonderful.

MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: So, 60% of these college students staying in our dorms in that prime college, due to the dormitories, it doubled the quantity of scholars that find yourself in faculty. Then after all there’s Özyeğin College. My father’s dream, his dream even earlier than he bought our shares within the financial institution, our essential enterprise. This was one thing he began dreaming of early 2000, whereas our group was manner smaller than at present. And he served at probably the greatest foundational college’s board for twenty-four years. Bilkent College in Ankara. He revered its founder a lot, he loved being on the board a lot. He obtained impressed, and he ended up founding our personal college. The one establishment in our complete ecosystem the place we gave our final title: Özyeğin College.

CHRISTINA WING: And that’s a shaggy dog story as a result of the daddy stated, “Companies will be purchased and bought, however the college goes to bear our title. And in doing that, I do know that my future generations will at all times handle it.” And it’s type of humorous, but it surely’s actually true.

BRIAN KENNY: Properly, in the event you’re going to place your title on it, it’s good to stay as much as a sure customary as effectively.


MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: Precisely, precisely. So, that is what we attempt to instill to our youngsters every single day. It’s precisely appropriate. Because it holds our household’s title, our college is on the middle of our complete giving exercise. Now it’s within the case that it’s predominantly our essential giving middle, as we communicate. As a result of AÇEV now has applications which might be funded internationally as effectively. We give continuously yearly to AÇEV as effectively. We construct new faculties as effectively. I simply, actually at present licensed constructing an arts college within the earthquake area, a brand new one. That is in our 2024 program. However Özyeğin College is countless alternative for us. It has college of legislation, it has college of structure, it has college of complete engineering applications. It has college of enterprise administration, liberal arts.

BRIAN KENNY: Wonderful.

MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: It’s now 7500 undergrads and one other 2500 grad college students. 10,000 college students whole.

BRIAN KENNY: I feel there ought to be an entire separate case written about the way you begin a college from scratch. Can’t get into it right here, however…

CHRISTINA WING: I feel that will be a e-book, not a case.

BRIAN KENNY: I feel that will be a e-book.

CHRISTINA WING: One factor that Murat talked about, that may not have come out fully to the viewers is, his father borrowed cash in opposition to his inventory earlier than he had the money to begin the college. This can be a unbelievable factor to do. It’s, that is my imaginative and prescient, I’m transferring ahead. Sure, the financial institution goes to promote, however can I borrow in opposition to the shares now to get began?

BRIAN KENNY: Big danger.

CHRISTINA WING: And that’s giving to the core.

BRIAN KENNY: Can we flip our consideration to the earthquake now, as a result of that was form of the central start line of the case, and I convey it up within the context of, it’s fairly clear to me that this basis is targeted on the identical values that you simply had, that you simply witnessed as a baby, a loving household, the nurturing that goes in, the significance of training. And that appears to have carried via every part that you simply’ve described that the inspiration is doing. After which this devastating earthquake hits, and I’m questioning, how do you even know the place to start to step in and assist in a scenario like that the place you’re simply surrounded by ache and struggling and devastation? The place do you select to focus?

MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: Properly, we wakened that morning. The very first thing we did was ship 283 individuals from our mine, who’re consultants on rescue. 280 individuals in 4 buses went from Soma to the area and on the way in which they noticed issues indescribable, however extra importantly due to them, these roads additionally opened up. As a result of there have been locations the place it was unattainable to maneuver ahead. It was horrible. So, this was the very first thing we did. The second factor we did was contact everybody we all know in Turkey and out of doors of Turkey in search of containers, we knew that containers can be an important factor for shelter as a result of it was the center of winter. Don’t neglect, this occurred in February. It was unfavorable 10 when it occurred, 10 Celsius unfavorable. And it was horribly, horribly chilly. And we began contacting individuals for heating home equipment, individuals for dishwashers, bathrooms, WCs, showers. Then our lodge instantly contacted the eating places round Istanbul. We put 5 TIRs, large vehicles, of kitchens in them with provides, with every part you may think about. They went to the area, they opened up cell kitchens throughout cities, cities. It was thousands and thousands of individuals exterior. It was thousands and thousands of folks that wanted this. In fact, workers’ safety. Now we have a wind farm within the area. We made certain we despatched containers there in order that they’re secure and sound. In fact, I’m not even telling, after all, first we accounted for everybody we now have within the area. We stopped all of the funds from the area to our financial institution’s bank cards, client loans. We stated, “Don’t pay us something you don’t must.” We canceled everyone’s loans within the area. We stated, “It’s a must to pay again something.” Similar goes for the commercial area. We stopped doing that. Yeah, I imply, we obtained mobilized. We obtained mobilized.

BRIAN KENNY: So, what I’m listening to right here, and this is without doubt one of the questions I had for you, Christina, is the alignment between the enterprise and the inspiration. I understand that this can be a for-profit enterprise that they’re operating and that helps the work of the inspiration. However right here you begin to see the traces blur in a great way, the place they’ve entry to sources due to relationships that they’ve constructed within the companies and data that they’ve gained via these companies to have the ability to reply in this type of a disaster scenario in a manner that’s in all probability much more efficient than most different organizations may.

CHRISTINA WING: No, and a few of that’s simply the guts of the household, however a few of that’s the scale of the household. They make selections in a short time. And once I spoke with Murat after the earthquake, I feel the following day, they usually had been speaking about what they had been going to do and what was really helpful to them, and he stated, “Properly, we’ll do double that.” And that’s simply the way in which the household is. They don’t really feel comfy sitting of their home having a meal and being heat and realizing that their nation individuals are on the market ravenous and in full shock. This was, I imply, a horrible factor to witness.

MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: 11 cities. Every, 1 million and extra. 11 cities.

CHRISTINA WING: And so, it was each the devastation of what individuals noticed and misplaced, after which how can we type of begin the restoration as quickly as potential? And the creativity-

MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: And Christina, I used to be there on Thursday morning. This occurred Monday morning at 3 A.M. I flew to the area Thursday morning, 6 A.M. I noticed 5 cities. I noticed every part. I imply, the cell bathrooms, the showers. I imply, even troopers had been freezing. So, all these heating home equipment we discovered, if I didn’t see these items with my eyes, we couldn’t have despatched hundreds of these items to the area in 5 days.

CHRISTINA WING: A part of this case is the multi-generational spirit of giving. And can Murat and his sister’s youngsters really feel the identical manner? Properly, the oldest, the following era of G3 is a junior at Harvard School proper now. And the minute this all began taking place, she mobilized the faculty to get garments, heat issues to be despatched over. I imply, everyone did their half from the place they’re. And what I feel is attention-grabbing is, this household has deliberate giving that occurs yearly however in addition they have spontaneous giving. Which, the spontaneous giving comes from the spirit of giving all alongside the way in which. It’s, “We want this proper now. We’re going to reduce in different areas. We’re going to seek out the cash and we’re going to get it performed.” And that isn’t one thing that very many individuals do, nor do they know the way to do it. And so these delays of even a day or two are extra individuals dwelling or dying. And so, simply begin transferring, is what they do.

BRIAN KENNY: In your expertise, working with different households which have foundations, how troublesome is it to get that subsequent era to undertake the identical spirit and the identical values?

CHRISTINA WING: I feel that when it really works, it really works as a result of the following era has been near the supply from the start. And that the center era additionally embodies it. And so, on this household, the grandparents have spent an infinite period of time with their grandchildren. It’s instilled in them. And let’s be clear, Murat’s mom would provide the shirt off her again. I feel she provides, after they don’t know that she’s giving. To reply your query, it doesn’t at all times switch in generations, particularly when individuals are geographically various and the place they stay in different generations, and after they don’t have a capability to have a voice within the giving. This group, everybody has a voice in giving. If any of the grandchildren needed to do one thing, I feel the household can be amenable to it. However most significantly, they’ve labored within the charities as they’ve been younger individuals. So, they’ve seen among the philanthropic wants, and I’ve little doubt that they may proceed the giving.

BRIAN KENNY: Murat, let me ask you, does your loved ones ever speak about legacy as an specific factor? Do you concentrate on it? And in the event you do, how does that information your actions?

MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: My dad pulled us into our college mission, for instance, from the very starting. So, while you do this, while you interact individuals at youthful ages, you find yourself having them motivated and really feel a part of the method. They really feel a part of the success story, a part of the entire story itself, and it’s additionally successful for themselves. So, they really feel the belonging, they really feel the thrill. So, that is how we attempt to maintain the legacy and construct the legacy. We pull our members of the family into initiatives as effectively, as Christina talked about, Ege, Lal, all these members of the seven youngsters in 3G. They’ve labored tremendously in all of those initiatives, together with the earthquake area for my son…However we don’t speak about legacy per se. We don’t say-

BRIAN KENNY: That’s what I’m questioning.

MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: …we wish to be that household, that we find yourself there.

BRIAN KENNY: It’s taking place, whether or not you speak about it or not. I suppose that’s the purpose.

MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: Sure. Brian, similar goes to our girl management. Now we have 55% of our CEOs as girls within the group, however we by no means have calculated it earlier than.

BRIAN KENNY: Yeah. So, let me return to you Christina. I’m questioning how does the case, in your opinion, illustrate the influence of cultural and household values on each the enterprise and the philanthropy?

CHRISTINA WING: Properly, I feel it’s essential to recollect, we are likely to, once we sit right here in Boston, take into consideration issues from a western viewpoint. And giving, America’s at all times touted as being one of many international locations that offers probably the most. However we even have incentives to provide. Now we have dying tax, we now have different write-offs that come. Many of those international locations do not need any of that. And so, after they’re giving, they’re simply giving. They’re not giving to offset earnings or different issues.

And so, the way in which that it comes throughout from the enterprise and from the philanthropic is that every part this household does is finished with intentionality. They rent good individuals, they handle their individuals. I’ve heard quite a few tales of folks that want medical care which might be a part of their enterprise. They ship them to the very best docs wherever they’re, and the identical goes on the philanthropic aspect.

So, it weaves collectively. This act of kindness goes throughout all of those. That doesn’t imply they’re not powerful, sturdy. That doesn’t imply any of that. However once I consider the household, they’re dwelling their legacy as a substitute of, there’s a legacy that shall be described after they go on. And that’s an enormous distinction. I feel dwelling your legacy is a present as a result of it does really feel good to do these good issues, and we have a tendency to speak about any individual’s legacy after they’re gone. And my view is, you’re creating your legacy every single day. Dwell it, have a good time it, share it, and hopefully it’s contagious.

BRIAN KENNY: Yeah, I like that. This has been a wonderful dialog as I knew it will be. I’ve obtained one query left for every of you. I’m going to provide the last phrase, Christina.

CHRISTINA WING: Oh, I would like the ultimate phrase. So, that’s good.

BRIAN KENNY: Murat, let me start with you and simply ask you, in the event you needed to look down the highway, 5, 10, no matter variety of years, what’s your imaginative and prescient for the place the inspiration shall be and what is going to its influence be in Turkey?

MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: I hope that 5 to 10 years down the highway, my 4 youngsters and my sister’s three youngsters are all conscious of what we’re doing, of the household philosophy of giving. I hope that I see the indicators and the imaginative and prescient of their eyes, of their minds, of the place our household took us, so I’ll get them as a lot as potential engaged. I can even guarantee that our household legacy and our foundations are effectively funded. I would like Özyeğin College to be prime 300 universities on this planet. I would like AÇEV to be one of many primary preschool training accomplice across the globe. There’s no purpose for them to not be there, and we’re going to verify they get there and hopefully they maintain the place they go.

BRIAN KENNY: All of us hope that you simply achieve all of these issues. That’s an awesome imaginative and prescient to have. Christina, let me simply flip to you for one final reply right here. Which is, I’m questioning if we take this out of even the household enterprise lens, we’ve obtained numerous enterprise leaders who hearken to this system, what would you say to them by the use of recommendation in the event that they’re trying to higher combine philanthropy into their enterprise mannequin?

CHRISTINA WING: I might say, “Simply begin,” and I feel you by no means remorse beginning. And I feel what many individuals do is say, “Properly, once I turn into profitable, I’ll do extra of this.” When you simply begin from the start, then it simply turns into one thing that you simply do mechanically. I additionally suppose that social giving will be in all methods of your life. You may have social giving, even via the way you make investments. You may spend money on issues that your loved ones cares about. So, in the event you simply begin, you by no means remorse it. When you sit round and also you look ahead to one thing to be excellent, you’ll by no means do something, and so, simply start.

BRIAN KENNY: Nice recommendation. Christina Wing, Murat Özyeğin, thanks for becoming a member of me on Chilly Name.

CHRISTINA WING: Thanks for having us.

MURAT ÖZYEĞIN: Thanks a lot for having me as effectively. Thanks.

BRIAN KENNY: When you get pleasure from Chilly Name, you would possibly like our different podcasts, After Hours, Local weather Rising, Deep Objective, Concept Solid, Managing the Way forward for Work, Skydeck, and Girls at Work. Discover them on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you pay attention, and in the event you may take a minute to price and assessment us, we’d be grateful. If in case you have any strategies or simply wish to say whats up, we wish to hear from you. Electronic mail us at Thanks once more for becoming a member of us. I’m your host, Brian Kenny, and also you’ve been listening to Chilly Name, an official podcast of Harvard Enterprise College and a part of the HBR Podcast Community.

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